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Thread: Got a kick out of this one

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    ... JT non-unlimited ...
    non-unlimited? sooooo.... an unlimited?

    Quote Originally Posted by NotThePainter View Post
    ... You spend the entire day in a noisy harsh environment that beats up your body. ...This was kinda my point that the Wrangler is built to fit a form before function, so to make it a convertable you have to give up weatherseal, sound insulation, ... and because of popularity they continue to demand premium...
    I guess if we did more of The Map is Not the Territory type of road tripping we'd look at Jeep ownership differently, but that's not what we do. Actually, I'd argue that a Jeep is better suited to wheeling and day trips, and "overlanding/ Map is Not the Territory" trips are better suited to trucks or "proper" SUVs (like the older Land Cruiser) where the design function/goal is a balance of operation, comfort, range as you need to make miles.
    We drove a 4runner recently, that's almost as uncomfortable as a Wrangler. (ok, it was quieter, but not by much)
    TFL Trucks did a review of the Gladiator recently and commented on the noise and how it was more noticeable than other vehicles, despite insulation that was added to the removeable pieces over the driver/passenger... and how they guestimate it to be due to the seams of those panels.
    And I do agree that
    most to all mid-tier vehicles (not just jeeps or trucks or suvs) don't do enough sound insulation. Last winter I added some insulation to the Truck, just on hte floor and a little on the doors, and just the Dynamat type stuff. It made a big difference. Next will be some acoustic foam in the roof and maybe a sheet behind the door panels to really seal out the road noise...
    The Wrangler is fantastic off road, better than anything out there, stock, from the factory. (And yes, I mean the 2 door Rubicon).
    ​I agree unequivocally
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueberryHill View Post
    I agree with your description of "truck", but the market has decided that's not the way it is anymore, so we have comfy four door half truck/half grocery getters that are called "truck". That was my point about the Ridgeline, which isn't a truck any more than a Pilot is an SUV, but the market has decided. It seems that what defines a vehicle now is what the market wants, the rules of the past are no longer relevant. The term SUV is a great example; it has gotten so far from it's original meaning as to be irrelevant, now it's just a marketing term.

    Hey, Hyundai has the largest line up of SUV's (even though they don't have a single one), just watch their ads.

    As far as the Gladiator, I've said this before; it should have been called the Scrambler. If they were going to revive the Gladiator it should have been a proper truck.

    I do disagree on your assessment of the Wrangler; the little Jeep started out as a short wheelbase tractor, not a truck, so it hasn't strayed too far, unlike the rest of the "utility vehicles" that have become fat a$$ luxury boats like the Rover and Cruiser. 8^)
    I disagree the market has decided what a truck is, as #1) the market surveys have said frequent buyers want cars i a truck platform (because they buy new every 3 yrs) and was started back in the early 90's when Dodge did the Ram re-vamp and made them stylish. #2) "real" trucks still are made for doing work M-F and having fun with the family S-S
    The latest iteration of truck/suv/soccer mom station wagon is largely due to the high price of vehicles, which is why you see everyone making them as do-everything as possible, so a family can have a family workhorse and a cheap commuter for the other parent.
    We may be 'arguing' the same point here and just missing eachother...
    But as to my point of the Wrangler, it was always designed as a light squad transport, then tried to make it a 'tractor' post-war, until the GI's started looking for an SUV for vacations, which started the arms-race (which brought about the Landy, Bronco, Blazer, ...) "Jeeps" (wrangler) has never been intended to compete with trucks (except where Jeep intentionally designed a light truck AS a light truck) versus what all light/midsize trucks are viewed as nowadays, a "lifestyle" vehicle (which is why you have CUVs, SUVs, 4-door trucks all designed similar and aimed at the same demographic versus the buyers of full-size trucks that still have some ridiculously high GVWR ratings... (a "light" truck that can tow 30k?!?! with a cadillac interior?!?!?!
    Alot of this is trying to get one platform that can do "all" things...
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash! View Post
    I just can't get over the cutout in the rear door. ...
    I Really dig the blue one. I'd buy that. Even looks like an honest truck.

    The 6-wheeler might be cool with a hellcat motor... and 6-wheel drive, 6-wheel steering... and airbag suspension... on 37" tires.

    And that's all I want... an honest, solid roof (I'd be ok if the top came off at the belt line with proper gasket seals... All one gigantic, hard to store top) and stand-alone/redundant electronics (engine is isolated, trans is manual, no Body Control Module, and no integrated info-tainment! )
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  2. #17
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    I'll sorta agree that the non-wranglers may be better on the Map is Not type of trip. Arriving at your destination not beat up is worth a lot. The only reason I'd prefer a Wrangler is that on that type of trip you don't know what you'll encounter, and I'd want the Wrangler for that.

    Then again, I've never done that type of trip. I'm just sitting here eating breakfast, so my opinions are just based on internet thinking, not real world doing. So yeah, a 4runner might be better. After all, if you encounter and obstacle that your overlanding rig can't cross you just don't cross it. It's not like we're being chased by a T-Rex or something. Find a way around it.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, flat belly, engine relocation, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtyler11 View Post
    I disagree the market has decided what a truck is,as #1) the market surveys have said frequent buyers want cars i a truck platform (because they buy new every 3 yrs) and was started back in the early 90's when Dodge did the Ram re-vamp and made them stylish. #2) "real" trucks still are made for doing work M-F and having fun with the family S-S
    The story behind the 2nd generation Ram is really interesting. What was produced was actually the second try. Mopar brass dumped the designers' first rendition because it was too minivan looking (and couldn't fit the Cummins in the engine bay), and sent them back to the drawing board. You have to admit; up until then light trucks had become a box behind a box behind another box with a barely useful cab, that only an enthusiast could love. Good looking trucks went out in the 60's. I know I'm going to catch hell from the GM square body fans, but I like that my 2nd gen looks like a cross between a big rig and a 50's Power Wagon, and has a cab that comfortably seats three (or has an immensely useful center console), and still can push a pile of wet snow uphill in my driveway.

    The latest iteration of truck/suv/soccer mom station wagon is largely due to the high price of vehicles, which is why you see everyone making them as do-everything as possible, so a family can have a family workhorse and a cheap commuter for the other parent.
    We may be 'arguing' the same point here and just missing each other...
    That's exactly my point; the market HAS decided what a truck is, just like it has defined the SUV, and enthusiasts have no say.

    But as to my point of the Wrangler, it was always designed as a light squad transport, then tried to make it a 'tractor' post-war...
    The Wrangler is still the only "light squad transport" in the mix, the only one that has stayed true to it's mission. By the way; the "jeep's" use as a "tractor" was definitely part of the original design requirements so it could replace live mules for toting artillery and such. There's pictures.
    Mary Anne: 1988 YJ, 258, Weber 32/36 DGEV, AX15/231, 4.11 HP-D30 & non c-clip D35 w/Truetrac, 33" KO2's, BDS 2" lift, a bunch of skid plates, Warn 9.5ti

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  4. #19
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    Boy oh boy; when we hijack a thread we really hijack a thread 8^)
    Mary Anne: 1988 YJ, 258, Weber 32/36 DGEV, AX15/231, 4.11 HP-D30 & non c-clip D35 w/Truetrac, 33" KO2's, BDS 2" lift, a bunch of skid plates, Warn 9.5ti

    Boomah: 1997 Ram 2500 4X4, Cummins 12V, 47RE, work in progress...

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotThePainter View Post
    I'll sorta agree that the non-wranglers may be better on the Map is Not type of trip. Arriving at your destination not beat up is worth a lot. The only reason I'd prefer a Wrangler is that on that type of trip you don't know what you'll encounter, and I'd want the Wrangler for that.
    ... So yeah, a 4runner might be better. After all, if you encounter and obstacle that your overlanding rig can't cross you just don't cross it. It's not like we're being chased by a T-Rex or something. Find a way around it.
    I suppose this is where you get to the whole debate of stock versus modified... In my mind, if you are going "overlanding" and run absolutely stock with a few totes/duffle bags of stuff you are asking for an asswhooping from mother nature... I think of Expedition Overland or Mountain State Overland as properly outfitted rigs. I've seen guys with JKUs trying to make them work and for a single adult, ok, but for a couple you need the payload.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueberryHill View Post
    ... That's exactly my point; the market HAS decided what a truck is, just like it has defined the SUV, and enthusiasts have no say.
    ok, I'll concede the point... ( I hate market polls .... when they NEED to listen to buyers, like with reintroducing the Xterra or maintaining the Frontier, they don't listen... but OOHHHH... the Rogue is SOOOOO great.... )....
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueberryHill View Post
    Boy oh boy; when we hijack a thread we really hijack a thread 8^)
    it's not hijacking.... its an appropriate course-correction...
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtyler11 View Post
    ok, I'll concede the point... ( I hate market polls .... when they NEED to listen to buyers, like with reintroducing the Xterra or maintaining the Frontier, they don't listen... but OOHHHH... the Rogue is SOOOOO great.... )....
    Yeah, and have you see the new Blazer? Ugh!

    Quote Originally Posted by mtyler11 View Post
    it's not hijacking.... its an appropriate course-correction...
    Haha, I like how you think.
    Mary Anne: 1988 YJ, 258, Weber 32/36 DGEV, AX15/231, 4.11 HP-D30 & non c-clip D35 w/Truetrac, 33" KO2's, BDS 2" lift, a bunch of skid plates, Warn 9.5ti

    Boomah: 1997 Ram 2500 4X4, Cummins 12V, 47RE, work in progress...

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  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtyler11 View Post
    I've seen guys with JKUs trying to make them work and for a single adult, ok, but for a couple you need the payload.
    Mine fills up fast just for a weekend of camping, I'd definitely want something bigger for a dedicated overland rig. The Gladiator might fill that niche well, although if you're not doing much crawling the SFA is more of a con than a pro, and I don't see many overlanders with the roof/doors off... so maybe the Tacoma/Colorado is still a better option. Of course, the Gladiator comes stock with 33s, will fit 35s stock and 37s with a 2" lift all with OEM parts.

    And it seems that automotive enthusiasts either don't vote with their wallet or are much smaller in number than they seem. I hear a lot of people lament about the lack of manual transmission options, yet if people were actually buying them, manufacturers would certainly fill the demand...
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueberryHill View Post
    Yeah, and have you see the new Blazer? Ugh! ...
    Oh... Don't get me started on that monstrosity!!! But I will grant Chevy that it IS similar to the last gen Blazer (since the last gen forsook its roots for the soccer-mom buyers and Tahoe became the heir-apparent to the square-body TRUE Blazer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash! View Post
    ... so maybe the Frontier is still a better option. Of course, ...
    there... fixed it for ya!

    I do agree Taco/4runner/Colorado is a "better" out of the box, if you don't intend to modify anything... best would be the Bison (AEV Colorado mix). IIRC that is 33's 'stock' along with MEGA skids (boron, I think)...

    for tire size, not sure how much you WANT to go over 33" for an overlander... as then mpg, spares becomes an issue.... if you're on the trail and you blow a tire or 2, how common are 37"s... and I'm thinking say northern ME, or MT, or Mexico... If you're on a long jaunt and you swap on the spare, when you pass through town, you want to fix or replace your dead tire... 33s are pretty regular now, 35s aren't unique... but...

    and when you're in deep, every mile of range counts...

    as to the $$$$ side... no, enthusiasts don't vote near as much as we need to, (nor can we really) AND we really are a small niche. BUT its not JUST a lack of our buying. Regulations plays into it too. EPA really did kill the manual. EPA and average buyer is driving the Direct Injection gas motors eventhough they aren't as long-lived as traditional port injection (intake valve buildup)
    EPA is what prevents us from having more diesel powered cars & trucks, as well as killing the ONE Major benefit to the average buyer (MILEAGE)... stupid DEF...
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotThePainter View Post
    I'll sorta agree that the non-wranglers may be better on the Map is Not type of trip. Arriving at your destination not beat up is worth a lot. The only reason I'd prefer a Wrangler is that on that type of trip you don't know what you'll encounter, and I'd want the Wrangler for that.
    Then again, I've never done that type of trip. I'm just sitting here eating breakfast, so my opinions are just based on internet thinking, not real world doing. So yeah, a 4runner might be better. After all, if you encounter and obstacle that your overlanding rig can't cross you just don't cross it. It's not like we're being chased by a T-Rex or something. Find a way around it.
    lol

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  11. #26
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    Step 1 in getting more storage out of your Wrangler, especially a 2-door one, but the trick works for 4-doors as well.

    Store the rear seat safely in the attic!



    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, flat belly, engine relocation, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtyler11 View Post
    ...And that's all I want... an honest, solid roof (I'd be ok if the top came off at the belt line with proper gasket seals... All one gigantic, hard to store top) and stand-alone/redundant electronics (engine is isolated, trans is manual, no Body Control Module, and no integrated info-tainment! )
    Traction, articulation, and gearing make a good off-road rig. Just a big lift, wide mud tires, and a winch simply do not.
    ~Shawn(the correct spelling ;)

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