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Thread: Agnes, NotThePainter's YJ

  1. #121
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    A nice list of upgrades here, Paul! I look forward to seeing Agnes in the spring with her new toys.
    WAGGLER: 1999 TJ: currently in pieces.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb523 View Post
    A nice list of upgrades here, Paul! I look forward to seeing Agnes in the spring with her new toys.
    Thanks!

    We can drop the boatsides, couldn't do it cheaply.

    But the gearing? Yeah, in progress.

    Put your rig back together and you and cda and I can have drag race, last one across the line wins.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  3. #123
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    Why yes, that's a muncie SM465 attached to a RockTrac! She's going to be crawl monster. Lets see the before and after numbers:



    And how does she compare to Ruby, a JK Rubicon with 4.10s?



    I can hardly wait to have her back...

    To get the flat belly the plan is to move the whole drivetrain forward (remember, she's a 4 cylinder, not a 6) and up. Sadly, she has a low pinon Ford 8.8 so real driveline angle is an issue. Going forward solves that.
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    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  4. #124
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    Ok, here's the update I've been waiting for. Agnes is home!

    Most of the work is done but a few more things have surfaced that will be taken care of soon. (All work is being done by Steve Gunseth in Surry NH who I really recommend.)

    The goal was to make a crawl monster. So she has a 241OR (Rubicon) transfer case, and a Muncie SM465 with a 6.55:1 first gear. So Agnes is basically a 3 speed now on the road, but that's ok. This was also the time to either get rid of her or to make her the Jeep I've wanted, so I did the latter. So that meant a flat belly, ok, almost flat belly. Lets start there. Here's she is with road tire pressure.



    Yes, that makes me happy. Ok, so it isn't 0 inches, but I think is 1/2" I can measure if you want.

    Now lets look inside the cab.



    The sm465 is sitting pretty far forward. Why? That's to help with the rear drive shaft angle. If you're going that far up the angle gets bad, so you have to move forward. (And yes, the 241OR is in high range here, with the stick pulled back. The linkage is direct and I can move it with two fingers, it goes forward to 4LO. I'm actually not sure how to find 4WD hi!)

    So what moves forwards? The engine of course!



    You now see the biggest advantage of the 2.5 4 cylinder. It is tiny. So Gunseth moved it forward 3-4 inches. You can see a witness mark where it used to rub the firewall. There's a lot more to move forward but the frame starts to drop there and the motor mounts get wonky if it goes more forward.

    Here you can see the motor mount moved forward:



    It still wasn't enough though, Steve would have had to cut away insane amounts of floor to make it fit. So yeah, 1" body lift. Neither of us wanted this but it was the right thing to do.



    And what's the 241OR look like?





    The 241OR is looking damn sexy, that's what. So clean? Yes, this was a NEW 241OR I scored off of craigslist. And look at that rear driveshaft, read it and weep. (You Toyota people won't understand, this is huge for a 2 door wrangler.)

    But the Muncie is too tall? It sticks below the flat belly. Just fab something up.





    You are not buying that part at Quadratec...

    And then for the repair work. Her rock sliders, i.e., the tub, were now rock grabbers, so she has some nice hill billy tubes!





    And it is a New England Jeep, and worse, she spent a few years on the beach in Provincetown, so rust. So more frame rail sections are replaced.





    And new rear revolvers, I blew out the bushings on my old ones. He hoped to buy the part but that didn't happen.



    So, is she done? No. Sadly, the first road test showed zero vibrations while driving, but when you coast, and the driveline unloads, you get a bad vibration. So we're looking into a high angle drive shaft.

    And I bent the U on the driver's side inner axle. He didn't have a chromoly on hand so he has to order one. I have stock one from a donor truck just so I can drive around.

    Hows the crawl ratio? OMG, awesome, 2nd gear is awesome and 1st is mind blowing. I'll get video up soon.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  5. #125
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    Cool

    So cool!!
    Traction, articulation, and gearing make a good off-road rig. Just a big lift, wide mud tires, and a winch simply do not ;)

  6. #126
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    I really want to set up the CJ almost the same way ! NICE setup!



    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codyjim509 View Post
    I really want to set up the CJ almost the same way ! NICE setup!
    Thanks!

    Do you have a CJ5 or CJ7? The 5 will be challenging given the wheelbase.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  8. #128
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    I have a 7-it already has a AX15 transmission so that is pretty long. I need to decide soon if I am going to pull the trigger because it needs driveshafts already. The front is worn out in the splines and the angle is too steep in the rear....I might have to take a look at your setup so I can get off the fence!

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codyjim509 View Post
    I have a 7-it already has a AX15 transmission so that is pretty long. I need to decide soon if I am going to pull the trigger because it needs driveshafts already. The front is worn out in the splines and the angle is too steep in the rear....I might have to take a look at your setup so I can get off the fence!
    PM sent.

    The sm465 is 4.5 inches shorter than the ax-15, but you might lose some of that space with the adaptor. You're welcome to crawl under and look, but you might want to bring an inspection mirror. :- ) Lots of skid coverage. You can see the adaptor a few posts above. I gained most of my rear driveshaft length by moving the engine forward, which might not work for you.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  10. #130
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    Question

    How is the weight distribution with the engine moved forward? I think it was 49/51(front-rear) with the 2.5L TJ, which is why it does a little better getting up and through stuff compared to 51/49 percent on the 4.0L

    Wranglers have always been close to that 50% mark, and one of the reasons why they do well off-road. I wheeled with some apparently nose heavy V8 swapped TJ Wranglers at a Jeep Jamboree, and whereas they were nice on the tarmac, they did poorly on the trails. It seemed as they performed like big block pickups in anything deep or slippery. And the work on these was done by AEV, which is a very reputable company, that does a lot of research and development.
    Traction, articulation, and gearing make a good off-road rig. Just a big lift, wide mud tires, and a winch simply do not ;)

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    How is the weight distribution with the engine moved forward? I think it was 49/51(front-rear) with the 2.5L TJ, which is why it does a little better getting up and through stuff compared to 51/49 percent on the 4.0L
    Wranglers have always been close to that 50% mark, and one of the reasons why they do well off-road. I wheeled with some apparently nose heavy V8 swapped TJ Wranglers at a Jeep Jamboree, and whereas they were nice on the tarmac, they did poorly on the trails. It seemed as they performed like big block pickups in anything deep or slippery. And the work on these was done by AEV, which is a very reputable company, that does a lot of research and development.
    Without going to the dump or buying a dozen bath room scales I have no way of knowing, with any precision, how that affects the weight distribution.

    A quick google shows that the 2.5 weighs 340lbs (compared to 515 for the 4.0. The sm465 is a beast, weighing in at 175lbs, compared to 80lbs for the AX5. So if anything, I think the CG moved backwards, not forwards.

    I do suspect that moving the spare tire to the bed had a bigger affect though, even though it is lighter it moved a greater distance. (On the other hand, it also moved down, which can only help.). I've not put the 35s on a scale but the 33s weighed 95 lbs. The 35s have kevlar, so the weight increase might not be much.

    To summarize, from stock:

    • Engine - Moved 340lbs 3-4 forward
    • Transmission - Added 100lbs, moved forward 7-8 inches (the sm465 is shorter than the AX5)
    • Spare - Added 50lbs, moved 2 feet forward and 1.5 feet down (and rotated, so some mass is 4 feet forward)
    • Rear Seat - Removed 80-ish lbs


    Conclusion:

    I dunno... :- )
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  12. #132
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by NotThePainter View Post
    Without going to the dump or buying a dozen bath room scales I have no way of knowing, with any precision, how that affects the weight distribution.
    A quick google shows that the 2.5 weighs 340lbs (compared to 515 for the 4.0. The sm465 is a beast, weighing in at 175lbs, compared to 80lbs for the AX5. So if anything, I think the CG moved backwards, not forwards.
    I do suspect that moving the spare tire to the bed had a bigger affect though, even though it is lighter it moved a greater distance. (On the other hand, it also moved down, which can only help.). I've not put the 35s on a scale but the 33s weighed 95 lbs. The 35s have kevlar, so the weight increase might not be much.
    To summarize, from stock:
    • Engine - Moved 340lbs 3-4 forward
    • Transmission - Added 100lbs, moved forward 7-8 inches (the sm465 is shorter than the AX5)
    • Spare - Added 50lbs, moved 2 feet forward and 1.5 feet down (and rotated, so some mass is 4 feet forward)
    • Rear Seat - Removed 80-ish lbs

    Conclusion:

    I dunno... :- )
    Hard to believe that the transmission is that much heavier, but that just goes to show you how "lightweight" the AX-5 really is, and the AX-15 is not a whole lot better, at least if one runs it behind a 6+ cylinder, as it would be a slight improvement behind the 2.5L

    The moving the spare thing does make a huge difference! Especially if removed entirely. I was shocked with the ride quality. It went right back on the original location because of this. I guess that is why they have different rear spring rates for soft or hard tops. Probably a differently valved shock might have done a better job dampening with the change.

    I was just curious on what negative characteristics it might have now, just for scientific curiosity ;)
    Traction, articulation, and gearing make a good off-road rig. Just a big lift, wide mud tires, and a winch simply do not ;)

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicon View Post
    The moving the spare thing does make a huge difference! Especially if removed entirely. I was shocked with the ride quality. It went right back on the original location because of this.
    Really?

    Moving the spare essentially removes weight from the end. (Since you have to remove the rear seat.) I would think that that would help the ride, with 2 exceptions. The first is that it might be too light for the shocks (as noted) and the second, at least in a YJ, that you don't have any ride to speak off, just uncomfortable awesomeness.
    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  14. #134
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    New driveshaft. Say goodbye to the vibrations!

    --
    Agnes - 1995 Jeep Wrangler (YJ) - 4 cylinder 35" MTRs, SM465, RockTrac, 3.5" Black Diamond Suspension SUA, Ford 8.8, HPD30 w/vacuum disconnect w/4.88s, ARB lockers front and rear, front shackle reversal, rear revolvers, lotsa skids, Bullet Proof steer modified, Mastercraft seats with PRP 5 point harness
    Ruby - 2016 Jeep Wrangler Hard Rock Rubicon - bone stock except for Rock Hard skids, diff armor

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotThePainter View Post
    New driveshaft. Say goodbye to the vibrations!
    Buttery smooth! Did Jeff make it for you?

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